Jun. 13th, 2017 10:35 pm
nightdog_barks: (Field Angel)
[personal profile] nightdog_barks
My god, there is a huge fire in an apartment tower in west London.

It looks really bad.

Date: 2017-06-14 04:14 am (UTC)
blackmare: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blackmare
I know there's video, but I can't watch that. I'm not casting any judgment whatsoever, I just can't do it myself.

Date: 2017-06-14 04:20 am (UTC)
blackmare: (fire horse)
From: [personal profile] blackmare
Something had to have been very very wrong for that fire to have spread the way it did, didn't it? As in, this building would not meet any reasonable modern fire codes whatsoever?

Date: 2017-06-14 06:46 pm (UTC)
blackmare: (dark barn)
From: [personal profile] blackmare
I've seen some of that now. I truly do not get how this building was allowed to operate in the condition it was in. As absymally backward as America is in oh so many ways, I've been around enough construction and remodeling sites to know that it's kind of impossible to get or keep your Certificate of Occupancy unless you've met all the relevant codes. "We gotta do this thing or no C.O." was the chorus between every verse on every site I've ever been on.

I'm shocked to learn this is apparently ...not necessarily the case in the U.K.?

Date: 2017-06-14 11:30 pm (UTC)
silverjackal: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverjackal
Building codes exist in the U.K... they're just not necessarily adhered to. There's a lot of corruption, and it's especially bad in London because property values are insane.

Date: 2017-06-14 05:42 am (UTC)
semyaza: (Default)
From: [personal profile] semyaza
Started by a faulty fridge, they say. That's unusual.

Date: 2017-06-14 06:22 am (UTC)
semyaza: (Japanese toy)
From: [personal profile] semyaza
Many fire safety infractions, no fire alarm system, highly flammable cladding, utter chaos from some of the eyewitness reports...

Date: 2017-06-14 06:37 pm (UTC)
blackmare: (whiteflower)
From: [personal profile] blackmare
How. How is it even possible in a "first-world" nation to have a residential building of this size WITHOUT A FIRE ALARM SYSTEM?

I live in a run-down old three-story thing without any elevators -- built 1968 I think -- and we have smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors in every unit, as well as a very loud building-wide fire alarm that instantly summons the fire department when it's tripped, and I know this because we've had several false alarms in my years here, as well as one real one when someone's dinner went up in smoke.

We get inspected by the city. Fire codes HAVE to be complied with. And this is in America, where generally anything to do with the well-being of average people is crappier than it is anywhere in Europe. I'm just ... it's hard for me to even fathom how this building was allowed to operate as it was.

Date: 2017-06-14 08:19 pm (UTC)
semyaza: (Default)
From: [personal profile] semyaza
In many respects, England isn't a first world country.

Date: 2017-06-16 05:46 pm (UTC)
tourmaline: (strawberry shake)
From: [personal profile] tourmaline
There was an alarm system but it's not known why it did not work. There was no sprinkler system because the requirements in England (both social housing and fire & rescue are devolved) currently cover new buildings only, there's no requirement for retrofit, and if residents vote no when asked if they want one (they may do so because of concerns over disruption, or cost of their contributions due if they are leaseholders) it's usually taken no further. Questions remain whether there were issues following recent refurbishments - latest story is that the cladding was the cheapest option available but a fully fireproof version would have cost only £5000 more for the whole building. Did the original contract stipulate that the cheapest options for materials must be adhered to? Was the building being inspected less frequently or by generic rather than specialist staff? Lots of cutbacks in these services mean fire & rescue do far less preventive work and estates officers have had workloads massively increased.

Date: 2017-06-14 01:07 pm (UTC)
silverjackal: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverjackal
This is the result of them deliberately building shoddy, unsafe buildings because of expediency and $$$. The materials are often who-knows-what (not actually rated, or falsely rated when it comes to support strength and being fire proof), there's not enough safety equipment (in terms of sprinklers, emergency lighting, etc.) inside the building, the water, electrics, and heating are all dodgy, and they often don't even leave a stem pipe for Fireservices to hook too in proximity. Because what's important is that the developers can shovel money into their greedy maws, yes? Who cares about residents and potentially neighbours and bystanders. :( (A friend of mine in London was remarking on the construction of just such a building down the street from where he works. He's grateful that he lives in tiny, somewhat mangy, older but relatively safe housing in another part of the city. In his opinion when the new building by his work goes up it'll take out a four block radius because there's no way for Fireservices to get in. Everything is too narrow and there's no water access.)

Date: 2017-06-14 07:05 pm (UTC)
blackmare: (jim dine's owl)
From: [personal profile] blackmare
It is my greatest hope right now that this utterly preventable disaster will work to prevent more of its kind.

Well, that and, of course, the the survivors will get the assistance they need to find new homes and rebuild their lives and their health.

In unrelated news, I think I accidentally unsubscribed from your journal just now, and had to go back and redo that, so if you get notifications for such things, that wasn't me waffling about whether I wanted to see your posts. It was a slip of the mouse cursor.

Date: 2017-06-14 11:36 pm (UTC)
silverjackal: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverjackal
I hate to say it but I think there will be more. There's no way to track down how many buildings were put up (or rennovated) with this *nudge, nudge, wink, wink* to safety standards until they eventually reveal themselves by the most unfortunate means possible.

I had a little laugh when I saw the email indicating you'd subscribed to my journal because I knew without being told what had happened. Not that I feel anyone is obligated to read my stuff, mind you, but because I've nearly hit unsubscribe on someone else's journal myself once. Fortunately it asked me it I was certain that I wanted to unsubscribe, so I could back out without mishap. The buttons are too close! For posterity: I did not receive an email indicating you had unsubscribed, just that you had subscribed, and then the notification of this comment explaining. You might not have actually unsubscribed at all.

Date: 2017-06-14 05:53 pm (UTC)
yarroway: (poker)
From: [personal profile] yarroway
I saw that. No working sprinkler system, no working fire alarms...the place sounds like a death trap. Those poor people.
Edited Date: 2017-06-14 05:53 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-06-20 09:34 pm (UTC)
flywoman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] flywoman
It was really, really bad, and the people who cut corners to save a few thousand quid at the expense of poor immigrants' lives are fucking criminals imo.


nightdog_barks: (Default)

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